J’Acuse: Shame on Germany for Circumcision Ban

September 6, 2012 11:31 am 35 comments

Hospital in Berlin-Köpenick. Photo: wiki commons.

Why do countries with long histories of anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry seem to care more about the so-called rights of young children not to be circumcised than do other countries in the world with far better histories of concern for human rights?  The same rhetorical question can be asked of countries, such as Norway, that care so much about the rights of animals not to be slaughtered according to Jewish ritual.  These questions are entirely rhetorical because every thinking person knows the answer.  It’s not because Germans or Norwegians are better people and care more about children and animals than do Americans.  It is because they care less about Jews.  Or more precisely they care a lot about Jews.  They just don’t like them very much and don’t care if they are forced to leave the country because they cannot practice their religions there.

So let no one praise a nation that murdered a million Jewish babies and children for shedding crocodile tears over the plight of the poor little baby boy who, following a many thousand year old tradition, is circumcised a week after birth.  Every good person should condemn Germany for what really lies at the heart of efforts to ban circumcision—old-fashioned anti-Semitism, a term coined by Germans for Germans and against Jews.

History is not irrelevant in assessing current policies.  The history of Germany (and Norway) in prohibiting Jews from practicing their traditional rituals goes back to a time when overt anti-Semitism was not only acceptable, it was de rigueur.  Today, new words replace discredited old ones.  Anti-Zionism instead of anti-Semitism. The welfare of children instead of the banning of religious rituals.  But it’s all the same.  Anyone who falls for the new pseudo scientific nonsense about the evils of circumcision or ritual slaughter is as naïve or bigoted as those who fell for the old pseudo scientific racial claims of Nazism.

Indeed, there is an ugly whiff of “racial superiority” in the implicit assumption underlying these bigoted laws:  Namely, that Germans and Norwegians are somehow morally (if not racially) superior to other countries that permit such “barbaric” practices.

So let’s call a spade a spade and let’s call anti-Semitism by its true name.

How then should reasonable people respond to these unreasonable efforts to make it difficult to practice traditional Judaism?  Some have called for a legal response.  Perhaps.  But fighting these bigoted practices in court plays into the hands of those who are proposing it.  In Nazi Germany, respected jurists were able to use the law to justify the most primitive forms of racism.  Indeed Nazism operated through the Nuremburg laws and other such anti-Semitic legal enactments, which were declared entirely lawful by the German courts.  Efforts to use the law against these manifestations of racism backfired, by legitimating the Nazi’s legalistic undertakings.  So let those who seek to challenge these laws do so but not without understanding the downside of such action.

Some may suggest that the alleged science purporting to support these bans be challenged on the basis of scientific truth.  Perhaps.  But that too may play into the hands of those who would argue that even acknowledging a possible scientific basis for these bigoted proposals lends some legitimacy to them.  “Science” too was used to support Nazi racial studies.  Should German scientists now conduct “twin studies” on circumcised and uncircumcised siblings?  Why is Germany not willing to accept the conclusion reached by the American Academy of Pediatrics following a five year review of the best research, that “the health benefits” of circumcision – including reduction of HIV and papillomavirus transmission – “out weight the risks?”

The best response is to shame the Germans into rejecting this new form of left wing anti-Semitism, by showing them how similar it was to the Nazism they now claim to abhor.  This approach will not work in Norway, because Norwegians have forgotten their history and still believe they were victims of Nazism rather than collaborators.  Norway’s anti-Semitic laws preventing Kosher slaughter of animals date back to the pre Nazi period and have remained in force since that time.  Norway seems to have no shame nor is it capable of being shamed.  Many Germans, on the other hand, seem willing to remember the past—at least up to a point.  They must confront that past and look into the historical mirror before they once again go down the road of treating their Jewish citizens as second class or worse.

Shame on those Germans who would ban circumcision.  Shame on those Germans who do not care enough to rise up in anger against the pseudo scientific bigots who falsely claim to be interested in the sensitivities of children.  Praise for those Germans who do stand against the bigotry of their countrymen.

Let other countries with cleaner hands take the lead in conducting real scientific research and in seeking to protect the rights of children and animals.  The dirty hands and filthy past of Germany forever disqualifies that country from leading the effort to ban Jewish rituals.  For shame!

This article was first published in German by the Juedische-allgemeine.

35 Comments

  • Dershi, forced mutilation is forced mutilation. If Jews want to get themselves circumcised when they are old enough to make that decision then bully for you.

    Shame on a adults who mutilate children.

  • Brilliant argument
    100%
    Agree.

  • Michal bat Zeev

    While I am always happy to know that my rights are safe because Dersh is on the case, I think he has missed the ball on this one.
    Currently Europe is worried about being overrun by Muslims; everywhere is worried about keeping out the Muslims. Their ritual slaughter is almost identical to ours; so close that hajjis I knew growing up in Iran would eat kosher meat when they travelled abroad and there was no hallal meat available.
    They circumcise their boys just as we do. There are fewer and fewer doctors willing to circumcise boys in countries that have signed on the the Rights of the Child Treaty, as has Germany, Norway and Australia where I currently live. To find a non-Jewish or non-Muslim physician willing to circumcise is increasingly hard because social service agencies are charged with enforcing the terms of the treaty. I suggest to Dersh that Europe, this time, in not behaving anti-Semitic but rather expressing their Islamophobia. If that is the case, that the anti-slaughter and circumcision is aimed at keeping Muslims away and NOT at Jews, then what does Dersh propose should be done?

  • Calling a spade a spade (stuffing politically-correct, liberal bias where the sun never shines) is long overdue. Germans have NO history of anti-Semitism. They love Muslims, always have. Turkey is more visible in Germany than in the United States at Thanksgiving. Germans just hate Jews, always have. Nonetheless, the ‘Missin’ Foreskin Circumcision Mission Decision’ goes deeper than that. Few literate individuals, other than out-of-touch, cloistered monks, or Helen Kellers, could credibly deny the Holocaust. So when a national leader named “I’m a Nut-Job” emerges from a fissure in the Earth’s mantle, what do the Hidden Yidden expect? Underachievers everywhere have hated Jews since Avram Avinu roamed the desert—it’s nothing new! A tiny minority of over-achievers should expect no less from a world of mediocrity. In the instant case, the existential threat to the Jewish diaspora is not simple, at least not the in the way politicians are nowadays. From the mid-19th to the mid-20th century, even before Fuehrer Hitler published Mein Kampf (his plan for World Conquest sans Jews)the Schmuck politicians of the Master Race (who made our current crap of pols look smart) were bullying Germant’s neighbors left and right.
    The Democrat-Socialists, Deutschland’s douche bag ‘a-beer-rations,’ have found a hole in Germans’ genetic code—probably the one Hitler crawled out of. They claim all old ‘Doc’ Mangler (the ‘Germ’ in Germany) was trying to do with our kids [at least when the blinds were open] was splice our Genes with our Jeans and Janes. In is in that vein that the progeny of the Nutsy Party has now banned circumcision for German boys. (Clitoridectomies for girls will probably be next. For now, the jury will be out until all the Jewry are out). So there it is: No more circumcision for German boys. Too much brain damage!

  • By this logic countries whose laws require Jewish parents to send their children to school or feed them properly are anti-Semitic. Non sequitur.

    If Jews were the only parents who exposed their babies to this medically unnecessary risk of death (yes babies do die of it!) then yes, a law protecting children from this gross negation of their human rights would be ipso facto anti-Jewish.

    And if the law prohibited Jewish men from choosing circumcision at age 18 it would be anti-Jewish.

    But a law of general application to protect the voice of the voiceless is characterised as a law for their protection, not an attack on a minority of penis-cutting parents who happen to be Jewish. Or Muslim for that matter.

    What about a law that prohibited the execution of adulterers and adulteresses? Is that anti-Jewish because the Lord commanded Jewish people through Moses “Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death”? Get a grip.

    A substitute for child sacrifice introduced in the Bronze Age has no place in the 21st Century. Children are People.

    • What.about.the.Arab.lobby?

      Vox, children circumcised by a mohel (a rabbi who is also a urologist) rarely have a problem.

      Botched circumcisions and deaths are caused by the lazy habit of allowing an intern to perform the procedure using a plastic clamp which is painful to set into place. Unlike the Jewish ceremony of the Bris, the child is not comforted and held.

      This is done on the first or second day of the little boy’s life; because the parents want to take the baby with them when they leave the hospital and healthy mothers no longer stay for two weeks of bed rest.

      By contrast, a Jewish baby boy has his Bris at the age of 8 days; because at that time blood begins to coagulate.

      The Queen of England had her sons circumcised by the Head Rabbi of London.

      • Braham Finestone

        Well said.
        The Queen also employs Jewish Solicitors, Doctors and the like.

      • You imply that every mohel is both a rabbi and a urologist. That simply is not true. Virtually none are urologists. Perhaps the most common co-vocation of a mohel is that of Kosher Butcher, though it is true that some rabbis have trained to become mohelim.

        Many Jewish boys do receive a “loose” cut from a mohel, and this minimizes the damage to sexual functioning by leaving enough shaft skin to facilitate the “gliding” motion that is beneficial to both men and women during coitus. In the US most medical cuts are “high and tight” leaving some victims sexually dysfunctional, or their female partners chaffed from friction of thrusting. “Loose” cuts from US doctors are relatively rare, compared to those from mohelim; there is a medical obsession with removing “enough” tissue, though what is enough is never specified.

        Plenty of boys have suffered horrible botches during ritual circumcisions, and it is denigrating their humanity to minimize the fact. The current debate in Denmark is fueled by the large numbers of botched boys (from one rabbi/mohel) who have been transported to Emergency Rooms for life-saving procedures.

        In cultures where this thing is not done, it is shocking and revolting to see the results of mistakes, when the cutting is so foreign to them, both in time and place, and is viewed as totally unnecessary.

  • It is fun and so easy to jump all over Germany and accuse them of anti semitism. As pointed out other European nations are about to outlaw circumsision. Germany not. Berlin just stated that religious cicumsision is ok. Now are you going after all the other countries, or is this just an anti German rant?

  • Mr. Dershowitz forgets that Israel can play a big role in defending Jews in Europe.

    In the case of nations that ban brit mila or shechitah, the Israelis should simply break diplomatic relations, ban trade relations, and throw their journalists out of the country.

    That is easy to do with countries such as Norway, Sweden and Switzerland; tougher with Germany due to its size and due to the submarine issue; but Israel can stop orders to take more subs (she probably has enough now to deter Iran if she can be deterred at all), and turn to South Korea for building future vessels.

    The other possibility would be for Israel to send mohels as diplomats, and thus their circumcisions would be protected under diplomatic immunity.

  • As an attorney sometimes involved in human rights issues, Alan Dershowitz is a man whom I’ve often admired for his work in speaking out for those who have no acknowledged status or have been silenced by oppression. Now it is truly tragic that he is unable to acknowledge the human rights of children who happen to be boys, that he is unable to move into the 21st Century where humanity is beginning to pay attention to the human rights of boys, and that he is stuck in a past when a prehistoric blood ritual was winked at out of a sense of tolerance for a pseudo-religious-freedom-right to practice a dubious cultural rite. In the USA Jehovah’s witnesses are prohibited from withholding blood transfusions from their children in accordance with the beliefs of their adult members; Appalachian Snake Handling Sects are prohibited by law from having children participate in their faith’s core practice.

    But Mr Dershowitz sees boys as having only “so-called” rights when it involves cutting off the most nerve laden part of their organ of procreation and pleasure. Had his circumcision been botched as badly as mine was, had he been subjected to life-long pain that medicine would not acknowledge (because doing so would undermine their cant that there is no danger in circumcision which never does any harm), had he been silenced by a threat of psychiatric confinement, yes had he experienced all these things as I did, then maybe, just maybe, he would be able to think in terms of the idea that a boy should be able to decide for himself about taking such risks, after he has attained a legal age of consent.

    It is clear that Mr Dershowitz wants to try his case against Germany in the court of public opinion, to preempt any further discussion of the issue by branding anyone who dares disagree with him as a Nazi and anti-semite. The ad hominem argument is stock in trade for those who advocate circumcision, whether for money or for alleged faith reasons. For all of them there are questionable underlying psychological reasons to continue a tradition just because it’s a tradition, an idea induced and deeply embedded by the mere fact of being circumcised or being involved in it for a father, brother, husband, or son. Many with “circumcised minds” struggle through the delusions to come out on the right side of history on this issue, including many, many Jews in the USA. Others stay stuck where they are, adding to their other delusions the idea that there is always something wrong with anyone who is against circumcision.

    But as Mr Dershowitz brandishes his wild accusations against Germany and the German people, their neighbors in Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden are at once considering how to effectively prohibit the practice that has caused dozens of boys to be carried into their Emergency Rooms with life threatening, and/or sexual-viability-threatening, injuries caused by their circumcisions. One supposes that those nations and peoples will soon be called ugly names by Mr Dershowitz, to the end of preventing any civil discussion of the issue. Though control, mind control, speech control . . . practices that hardly become Mr Dershowitz’ life history of preventing them.

    • At what age were you circumcised? When? Where? By whom?

      How many/what percentage of circumcisions are botched?

      • A day or two after birth, in a hospital in the USA, by a doctor.

        There is very strong evidence that at least 15% of medical circumcisions in the US are botched seriously enough to require surgical correction. See http://wtvr.com/2012/08/27/dr-boyd-winslow-circumcision-mistakes/ for very typical situation in a very typical city. Such news has long been suppressed, but a new generation of reporters is inclined to cover it now. US medicine has loudly touts that complication rate is much less than 1%, and that all complications are very minor. There are from 117 to 230 deaths a year from circumcision in the US. Perhaps worse are total amputations that require a sex change operation for a boy. See _As Nature Made Him: the boy who was raised as a girl_, by John Colapinto. The outcome in that Canadian case suggests that such situations can lead to suicide.

        (Canada has now essentially ended routine infant circumcision, but when David Reimer was born it was on a par with US; and still a few parents demand it out of compulsion to follow a tradition. UK and NZ stopped by 1955; Australia and Canada by degrees since then. In the US there is still a huge profit motive for doctors. Outside Anglophone spheres “The West” has never done it.)

  • Genitally mutilating helpless babies is wrong. That is as close to a moral absolute as you can get, and anyone who doesn’t feel utter disgust at this barbaric blood ritual is sick.

    One of the duties of governments, and indeed of all decent people, is to speak up for the voiceless, defend the defenceless, and protect the weak against the strong. That is exactly what the court in Cologne was doing, and they were right.

    Stick to your principles, Germany. You are on the right side of history, and one day you will take your place with pride alongside those who abolished suttee, slavery, and witch burning.

  • This is an atrocious bit of rabble-rousing from a once well-regarded legal scholar. The American constitutional law we both studied only protects belief; it does not protect religious practices, including circumcision of minors, which pose a physical risk to the child.

    It is an accident of cultural history –and legal negligence– that the practice is tolerated anywhere, an artifact, as I have written elsewhere, due to fear of anti-semitism and lack of an effective advocate for the hapless child forced to join a religion he has not yet chosen.

    I would have thought that Counselor Dershowitz would have run across Reynolds v. U.S., (1878), and Prince v. Massachusetts (1944) at some point during his legal career, which make the belief/practice distinction abundantly clear.

    Very likely German law has similar protections for children, especially since Germany has signed the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, while the U.S. is only one of two countries which has declined to do so (the other is Somalia; not such illustrious company).

    Whining about how Jews are unloved might make interesting rhetoric to rouse the rabble, but it does not provide good legal or human rights analysis in German OR English. Certainly the analysis needs to be much more sophisticated than this sophomoric rant.

    John V. Geisheker, J.D., LL.M.
    Executive Director,
    General Counsel,
    Doctors Opposing Circumcision
    Seattle, Washington, USA

  • It is regrettable that Mr. Dershowitz cannot see the difference between the opposition to circumcision of infants who cannot consent and anti-Semitism. As a law professor he should know that the U. S. Constitution, which protects religious belief, does not protect religious practice that harms others. For example, Jehovah’s Witnesses who honestly believe that God prohibits blood transfusions may be required by law to let their child have one to save his/her life. Christian Scientists may be forced to have their children have life-saving medical care even though they believe that prayer is all that is necessary. Then why cannot government prohibit damaging and dangerous surgery on infants, who cannot consent? Moses Maimonides, the great Jewish sage known as the Rambam, a thousand years ago made it clear that circumcision is physically damaging (although he believed it was spiritually beneficial for Jews). It is not anti-Semitic to oppose harmful, damaging surgery on infants. There are many Jews in the anti-circumcision effort in the U.S. and elsewhere. There is even an Israeli anti-circumcision movement. Is it anti-Semitic? One should note that the child at issue in the Cologne case was Muslim, not Jewish. At the same time it is interesting that the Chair of the recent AAP Task Force is Jewish, as is its pediatric urologist, who admits that approximately one out of five cases in his office involves an issue with circumcision. Did the Task Force ignore much of the evidence against circumcision? It seems to me that it did. Was its real purpose to defend the indefensible and to protect a religious and cultural practice? Once again, it seems to me to be so.

  • I believe Medi-Cal of California, USA was discussing that too…Hmm..

  • Brandon,
    How many Jewish boys do you think get to be circumcised in Norway each year ? less than Ten. Ten out of ten whose main concern is the harassment of the likes of you. The tiny Jewish community is a sitting duck to these cowardly attacks.

    In comparison, did you anywhere develop and display a similar very elaborate verbous concern for the 80,000 children that are “mobbed” in Norwegian Schools? (Ref: The major daily “Aftenposten” this year, official numbers).
    I bet no.
    How many tragic traumas are molded every day in Norwegian schools by the mobbing cowards? They always find a way to get the weak ones.
    You don’t mind being called names, you say – your concern is for the children. Bigot ? Too mild.
    Big Id for sure. Big id, or big ot or just big..

    • “How many Jewish boys do you think get to be circumcised in Norway each year ? less than Ten. Ten out of ten whose main concern is the harassment of the likes of you.”
      - [Face Palm] Please tell me you are kidding. I point out that Alan Dershowitz is making (blanket) accusations, amusing that people are motivated by anti-Semitism (Which he offer no evidence for and some of who are Jewish them self), and not what they say their motivation is. And you somehow equate (by implying) that Jewish boys in Norway are concerned with harassment by me? Them are some amazing mental gymnastics there Is this your defense mechanize, where, you need to demonize people who don’t take your position?
      “The tiny Jewish community is a sitting duck to these cowardly attacks.”
      - What cowardly attacks? Are you implying again, I am doing something I am not?

      “In comparison, did you anywhere develop and display a similar very elaborate verbous concern for the 80,000 children that are “mobbed” in Norwegian Schools? (Ref: The major daily “Aftenposten” this year, official numbers).
      I bet no. How many tragic traumas are molded every day in Norwegian schools by the mobbing cowards? They always find a way to get the weak ones.”
      - Distraction fallacy. Irreverent to my points made
      “You don’t mind being called names, you say – your concern is for the children. Bigot ? Too mild.
      Big Id for sure. Big id, or big ot or just big..”
      - I don’t think I will ever accuse you of being a tolerant, fella.

      • So I was right was I ? You have nowhere, ever, never, used your energy in attacking your societies reluctance to put a stop to mobbing in Schools ?

        By coincidence, the Aftenposten main editorial today claims a number of children comit suicide every year because of mobbing in schools.

        Yet, circumscision is what bothers you. SO your’e the tolerant fella then ?

        • “So I was right was I ? You have nowhere, ever, never, used your energy in attacking your societies reluctance to put a stop to mobbing in Schools ?”

          - Again, irrelevant.

          “By coincidence, the Aftenposten[SIC] main editorial today claims a number of children comit suicide every year because of mobbing in schools.”

          - Sad. But again, irrelevant.

          “Yet, circumscision[SIC] is what bothers you.”

          - Yes. I would thin that obvious?

          “SO your’e[SIC] the tolerant fella then ?”

          – From you hatred in your comment, I would say much more tolerant then you. But there are things I am not tolerant of, like rapist, child molesters, raciest, Homophobes, “real” anti-Semites, anti-Muslim, People who abuse children, this includes people who cut up children genitals (Male and female), etc…

  • “It’s not because Germans or Norwegians are better people and care more about children and animals than do Americans. It is because they care less about Jews.”

    - What bull. By that logic, we can say if they allow Jews to mutilate children, then we must care more about Jews then children. FYI: Many of the people who want to stop this barbaric practice of mutating boys (and girls) are Jews them self. In many ways they are even spear heading the moment to end it. If you need to demonize people because you or the pro-male-circumcision people can’t produce a good argument to justify amputating part of a child’s penis, then feel free. I have no problem with being called a anti-Semite or bigot, I do how ever have a problem with people mutilating their children, so I will not be scared of being called anything.

    “So let no one praise a nation that murdered a million Jewish babies and children for shedding crocodile tears over the plight of the poor little baby boy who, following a many thousand year old tradition, is circumcised a week after birth.”

    - Oh, lets not let go of the past and praise them on their work to protect children, including Jewish children. No lets, try and guilt them into letting people assault helpless male children. But when it comes to female circumcision, a many thousand year old tradition, then lets not say it is a anti-religion or tradition. Mr Alan Dershowitz. Your double strandeds and intolerance is showing.

    “Every good person should condemn Germany for what really lies at the heart of efforts to ban circumcision—old-fashioned anti-Semitism”

    - You present no evidence of any anti-Semitism, and decided because the people want to protect children, who you disagree with, then somehow, it is a act of anti-Semitism… [FACE PALM]

    “in prohibiting Jews from practicing their traditional rituals goes back to a time when overt anti-Semitism was not only acceptable, it was de rigueur.”

    - Dam! And they are not letting people practice female circumcision too. Dam them bigoted hatters. FYI. Jews are not denied the right to practice circumcision. Only being denied the right to do to someone else who has not even established his own religion.

    “The welfare of children instead of the banning of religious rituals.”

    - So circumcision had been band? You are really miss informed.

    “Anyone who falls for the new pseudo scientific nonsense about the evils of circumcision or ritual slaughter is as naïve or bigoted as those who fell for the old pseudo scientific racial claims of Nazism.”

    - And yet you cannot provide any counter argument ageist the so called “pseudo scientific.” You know the same pseudo scientific arguments that protect girls. Oh, but when it comes to girls then it real science, right? Can we say “sexist?”

    “Indeed, there is an ugly whiff of “racial superiority” in the implicit assumption underlying these bigoted laws: Namely, that Germans and Norwegians are somehow morally (if not racially) superior to other countries that permit such “barbaric” practices.”

    - [Face Palm]

    “So let’s call a spade a spade and let’s call anti-Semitism by its true name.”

    - And lets call you a sexist, fear mongering, demonizer, who is intolerant of people who don’t agree with your view of mutating children.. At lest that is a accurate description.

    “How then should reasonable people respond to these unreasonable efforts to make it difficult to practice traditional Judaism?”

    - It is unreasonable to protect children? That is a first.

    “Some may suggest that the alleged science purporting to support these bans be challenged on the basis of scientific truth. Perhaps. But that too may play into the hands of those who would argue that even acknowledging a possible scientific basis for these bigoted proposals lends some legitimacy to them.”

    - In other words you have no counter argument and the moment you acknowledge it, it will be known.

    “Why is Germany not willing to accept the conclusion reached by the American Academy of Pediatrics following a five year review of the best research, that “the health benefits” of circumcision – including reduction of HIV and papillomavirus transmission – “out weight the risks?””

    That’s easy; 1. It just came out; 2. It is culturally bias. 3. It uses flawed studies to come to its conclusion, like how it use the African AID’s trials that have so many flaws in it that makes it obvious the study was manipulated to get the numbers they wanted. Like how it had
    a. selection bias.
    b. Experimenter bias.
    c. Problematic randomization.
    d. Inadequate blinding.
    e. Lead-time bias.
    f. Time-out discrepancy (restraint from sexual activity only by circumcised men).
    g. Lack of placebo-control.
    h. Inadequate equipoise.
    i. Not investigating male circumcision as a vector for HIV transmission.
    j. Not investigating non-sexual HIV transmission of HIV.
    k. Participant expectation bias.
    4. The AAP did not include numbers of how they compared the risk vs benefits, indcating no real comparison was made. And if they did they may have come to the same conclusion as as a paper titled “A Cost-Utility Analysis of Neonatal Circumcision.” That conclude “Neonatal circumcision is not good health policy, and support for it as a medical procedure cannot be justified financially or medically.” 5. It left out many risks and long turn effects. 6. It also left out the fiction of the foreskin. 7. It did not use any study that shows the benefits of being intact (like how being circumcised increases HIV infection, how most intact country’s have less HIV infection, or how circumcision increases male to female transmission of HIV) 8. It uses studies that don’t apply to the USA and uses them to the USA anyways. 9. The AAP is a trade organization, with it’s primary concern being for the financial interests of its members (doctors). Not to mention other medical organizations had already looked at the same information and came to a different conclusion.

    “The best response is to shame the Germans into rejecting this new form of left wing anti-Semitism”

    - Well, I guess when you can’t actually make a argument for mutilating children. Then the next thing to try is for an emotional appeal. In other words. If the fact are ageist you, go for the logical fallacy.

    “Shame on those Germans who would ban circumcision.”

    - Shame on people who want to protect children?

    “Shame on those Germans who do not care enough to rise up in anger against the pseudo scientific bigots who falsely claim to be interested in the sensitivities of children.”

    - Yeah, shame on people who will not fall the claims that Alan Dershowitz say about the anti-child mutation group using “pseudo scientific” and “ anti-Semitism” with out evidence to back up what he says. And wanting to protect the children. Shame on them. [Face Palm]

    “The dirty hands and filthy past of Germany forever disqualifies that country from leading the effort to ban Jewish rituals.”

    - Wow! Who is the bigot again?

    • If ‘Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.’ is your motto, let me help you out! [Which way did you come in?] That you cannot spell or parse provides a hint of your intelligence, never mind your I.Q. You have a right to believe anything your little heart (and littler mind) desires. But you have NO right to impose your beliefs upon anyone else. You are a fine example of the kind of people who allowed Joseph Stalin, Bennito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and other tyrants to rise to power. Perhaps the author(s) of: “Those who believe in Nothing will fall for Anything!” had you in mind.

      • “If ‘Sticks and stones may break my bones[SIC] but names will never hurt me.’ is your motto, let me help you out!”

        - Not my motto. However, it sounds good anyways.

        “[Which way did you come in?] That you cannot spell or parse provides a hint of your intelligence, never mind your I.Q.”

        - Attacking the person, not the argument nice.
        “You have a right to believe anything your little heart (and littler mind) desires.”

        - And same to you.

        “But you have NO right to impose your beliefs upon anyone else.”

        - I am against female circumcision as well. I guess, I should not impose my beliefs on that as well and no one should. So we should let it be legal. Sorry if what you think I am doing here is imposing my beliefs on other. Then your wrong. I have every right.

        “You are a fine example of the kind of people who allowed Joseph Stalin, Bennito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and other tyrants to rise to power.”

        - What mental gymnastics. So protecting children somehow leads to people “who allowed Joseph Stalin, Bennito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and other tyrants to rise to power.” Wow!

    • Braham Finestone

      you are mr – a misinformed raving nut case ( meshugana) AD is quite correct. It is an age old tradition and if a proper registered Mohel usually a RABBI the chance of a botched circumcision is about 1000:1 or less even.
      As for girls, Jews never do that – unlike Muslims who murder them in cold blood if they arent pure.
      These arguments are so petty, live and let live. But let he who cast the first stone be without sin??

      • Not entirely sure who you are aiming that comment at, but I’ll respond.

        “you are mr”

        - huh?

        “a misinformed raving nut case ( meshugana) AD is quite correct.”

        - Who is AD? And who is a “raving nut case?” And why? Does a decent opinion make one a “raving nut case?”

        “It is an age old tradition and if a proper registered Mohel usually a RABBI the chance of a botched circumcision is about 1000:1 or less even

        - First where are you getting your numbers? Second: That’s a lot, a lot more then I thought it was, Third: even complications and other issues (that don’t fall under botched circumcision) are high and show just why it should not be done. Forth: Even if their was not a single complication or batched circumcision it still does not justify it.

        “As for girls, Jews never do that”

        - That is incorrect. And as many have pointed out that, “Some argue that FGC has religious significance, but the custom cuts across religions and is practiced by Muslims, Christians, Jews and followers of indigenous religions.” and as the AAP has even pointed out when it said there should be a option for symbolic pin prick for girls when it said “has been documented in individuals from many religions, including Christians, Muslims, and Jews”

        “unlike Muslims who murder them in cold blood if they arent pure.”

        - You say that with a blanket statement. Remember not every one is the same and people on individuals bases and their behavior/action should be addressed not apply it to a enter group of people. If a Jewish man rapes a girl does this mean all Jews do that? Of course not. This is how, in part, hatred continues.

        “These arguments are so petty,”

        - Which arguments? If you are talking of my arguments, well they are necessary to make. People need to be confronted when they start making blanket accusations.

  • Why does the word “nazi” deserve a capital letter, is beyond my understanding.

    • Dershowitz is no Zola, and this time, it isn’t about the Jews.

      The Intactivist movement works to protect all children, male, female or intersex, from non-therapeutic genital cutting. We set off the outcry against the American Academy of Pediatrics’ misguided attempt to allow a token ritual nick to girls “much less exstensive than neonatal male genital cutting” (their own words) in 2010, that made them back down.

      “Why is Germany not willing to accept the conclusion reached by the American Academy of Pediatrics following a five year review of the best research, that “the health benefits” of circumcision – including reduction of HIV and papillomavirus transmission – “out weigh[t] the risks?””

      How about, because it’s a load of bullpucky. See tinyurl.com/aapanno for an analysis of its bias and many faults.

    • Braham Finestone

      You may well ask Doreen – Nazi is a horrid word- animales in Spanish is better….
      Herr shitzelgruber wasn’t a man was an illiterate animal. He had a mission in life – hatred of all mankind nisch perfectes deutsche what ever that means. He hated Serbs, Jews, Germans, slavs even.
      The man was a meglamaniac who got his kicks out of his own self-image.

    • Hi Doreen, it’s because it is an abbreviation for the name of a political party namely the German form of National Socialist Party, like Republican, Grand Old Party or Democrat. Relax – and thanks for an easy question!

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