Monday, May 21st | 7 Sivan 5778

Close

Be in the know!

Get our exclusive daily news briefing.

Subscribe
March 21, 2014 8:54 am

To Serve, Or Not to Serve

avatar by Jeremy Rosen

Email a copy of "To Serve, Or Not to Serve" to a friend

Hundreds of thousands of Charedim protest in Jerusalem. Photo: Screenshot.

My friend Yori Yanover was recently sacked as editor of the online Jewish Press. His crime was a biting condemnation of a demonstration of protestors in New York against a proposed law, now passed by the Knesset, requiring a significant number of Israeli Charedi men to serve in the Israeli army or do some form of social service even within their own communities.

Yori simply pointed out the lies that that the protesters perpetuate both in Israel and abroad: “That the bill aims to destroy Torah” – but the bill is not requiring every yeshivah student to serve; genuine scholars will be exempted. “That the army will destroy the religious life of Charedi recruits” – there are thousands of religious young men who have served and remained religious. “That those religious politicians and rabbis who support the draft are heretics.” None of this is true. It should be held up to the ridicule it deserves.

What is their argument? It is first and foremost that the God of Israel is the defender of the Jewish people, and that this should be enough to protect Israel from its enemies. In principle that may be true, but from the time immemorial, the Israelites were commanded to defend themselves by taking up arms. So one is bound to wonder if it was OK for Abraham, Moses, King David, and indeed Judah Maccabee, why would it not be permitted for Jews living today. Anyway, doesn’t self-defense trump most of the laws of the Torah? Isn’t training to learn how to defend oneself against imminent and real threats self-defense too?

The sad fact is that one section of our people has come to expect the other to go to war and die to defend them. That cannot be an ethical position, even if you do believe that serving God is the highest good. Not only that, but the bill is offering an alternative to military service; it is called community service. It has even included an agreement with Chabad to exempt a number of young men from community service in Israel to serve communities abroad.

It may be argued that in the past Israel was defeated and destroyed because it had abandoned Torah and was corrupt and decadent. I agree that a high moral standard and Torah study is necessary for our survival. But in the past it was considered possible to combine study and fighting. Why not now that there are proportionally more yeshivah students per capita amongst the Jewish people than ever before? And many of them are only in yeshivah because of social pressure, rather than a passionate desire to study. Can it be that some yeshivahs are only insisting on keeping everyone full-time because if some of their students go into the army they will get reduced subsidies? Perish the thought.

You may be told that the Israeli army is the agent of a secular anti-religious state. There was indeed a time when the Israeli army was not very hospitable to religious Jews, but that is hardly the case nowadays with an effective army rabbinate and top generals wearing kipot. Perhaps many Charedi youths being exposed to the outside world (and not just in an airplane journey from Tel Avi to New York) might be so cataclysmically shocked as to impair their mental states for the rest of their lives. Chabad has always sent a large number of young men into the army and they have not lost religion. Over the years a significant number of young Haredi men have served in the army, despite the disapproval of their rabbis, and there is no evidence that they have been adversely affected. There has actually been a system in place for many years in which young men could combine the army with yeshivah study.

Another argument is that this is really an evil plan to get young Haredi men to learn how to earn a living. Why is that such bad thing? Others argue that threatening punishment for those who evade the draft is discrimination. But it could only be if it were not applied equally to anyone who evaded the draft regardless of religious proclivities.

There may in fact be a lot wrong with the bill. But the Haredi camp refused to negotiate altogether. They refused earlier attempts at compromise, like the Tal Law. What is it that has so convinced their leadership that compromise is a sin? How does one explain the total refusal to even sit down and negotiate? Or the pathetic claim that this is a Nazi-like genocide against poor defenseless young men? I expect rabid anti-Semites or lunatics to say such rubbish.

There are I think two reasons for this extreme refusal to compromise or negotiate. Neither is legitimate. One is the historical tension between the Haredi and the Secular. Once there were indeed grounds. I well recall the antagonisms of the 1950s, when obstacles were put in the way of religious communities and all secular political doors were slammed in their faces. But that is long gone on a governmental level.

The other is the increasing extremism and influence of anti-Zionist Messianic ideology. The mood amongst many (not all) Haredi communities around the world has been getting increasingly extreme. Whereas the grandfather of the present Vishnitzer Rebbe was very supportive of Israel and actually sent groups of young men into the army, his son did not. The grandson, who spent time in exile with his extreme uncle in Monsey, has become blindly antagonistic. Even the Belzer, once pro-Israel, has now threatened to take his Chasidim to the USA (as if a hundred thousand Jews on welfare are going to be welcomed).

It has become a religious principle to become more extreme and a political game to say “no.” So naturally, the secular ask why they should support and indulge those who refuse to share the burdens of the state. That is how Israeli politics gets so polarized.

The trump card is the dogma that the “Great Ones,” an oligarchy of outstanding rabbinic scholars (and no small number of rabbis who simply succeeded their fathers) have decided is best and they think we must just obey. In principle I do not disagree. But experts can also be wrong. And Judaism does believe in personal responsibility.

And I cannot see how we can possibly negotiate with the Palestinians when we cannot even negotiate with ourselves!!

Share this Story: Share On Facebook Share On Twitter Email This Article

Let your voice be heard!

Join the Algemeiner
  • Alter

    Dacon 9, to “die for Hashem” there is no need for war, better dying of old age.

    • ALTER, NO MATTER WHEN WE DIE, WE STILL HAVE TO FACE THE HEAVENLY COURT.

      Obviously you dont believe in that…my last question to you… when do you know when your old age is?
      maybe you lost 10 years of your life because of your heretical mind… maybe you are being pushed to the edge, maybe I am here at HASHEMS WILL TO GIVE YOU A LAST CHANCE….

      I have a antimisisonary blog…i am not up to date but in a week or so welcome your comments.a professor from YU last year wrote in a few times.I talk street talk..not professorial….some in …argue with me
      I love to mock you….jewswithviews.com .
      Due to personal issues I havent been up to date for a year…
      i dont have advertisements no money
      its purely to mock you.
      YOUR MAN ENOUGH TO GIVE A COMEBACK..
      DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU ARE INFLUENCING BY ANSWERING ME?..NO ONE..,-0- !
      ARE YOU AN ALTER AS I KNOW THE MEANING ELDER? OR ARE YOU GIVEN THAT NAME.
      I AM THINKING OF ALL THE WAYS I CAN ANNOY YOU.

      I had a rabbi once,
      I loved him RABBI ABRAHAM HECHT ZT’L
      HE SAID A STORY LIKE THIS.
      A FARMER hired a mule trainer because he was unable to train the mule. The trainer came in the morning opened his bag took out a hammer and hit the mule over the head. The mule wobbled dizzy and shocked…
      The farmer told the mule trainer
      “I hired you to train my mule not to kill him”
      The mule trainer replied..
      “FIRST I HAD TO GET HIS ATTENTION”

      I have the hammer in my bag alter…..

      go to my blog because this topic will be changing soon in this colume

      • Alter

        Dying of old age doesn’t depend on merit, it depends on Mazal (Zohar I, 181a). No one with priestly blood merits to serve the military.

  • Alter

    Dacon 9, just to illuminate the character here: I don’t have a single drop of Xtian blood in my veins, hence my comment that “soldiers were always the lowest blood caste”. As far as I know (earlier than the 16th Century), there isn’t a single soldier (for any country, king or religion) among my grandfathers. Respect.

    • Alter

      “Soldiers were always the lowest blood caste, starting with King David’s ancestry, who was affected by gentile blood, from Ruth to Yishai, his father, “I was born in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Tehillim 51:7)”

    • ALTER
      RAMBAM ASKS “ARE YOU THINKING LIKE A JEW”

      You can be ‘born a Jew’
      THATS BIOLOGICALLY JEWISH’
      BUT ARE YOU MENTALLY JEWISH ?

      ARE YOU THINKING JEWISH

      WHEN YOU SAY SOLDIERS.
      I think of KING DAVID
      I THINK OF IDF DYING FOR ISRAEL THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE.I think of the soldiers fighting the romans the greeks the ottomans the xtians AND THE BRITISH.

      I THINK OF JEWS who died for HASHEM AND TORAH rather then convert speaking of 16th century etc.
      They are your ancestors
      They are HASHEMS SOLDIERS.
      ….SOLDIERS

      in a way we are all soldiers defending and educating the WAYS OF HASHEM…or are you?

      lowest caste? I already tried to educate you what the meaning of KING DAVID TEHILLIM 51:7
      and you still reject that…

      EVEN the Talmud has rules for soldiers when engaging the enemies.

      TELL ME WHEN YOUR TEHILLIM IS PUBLISHED WHERE THE “WORLD” WILL READ ‘YOUR’ WISDOM.
      then I will grab all the copies and burn them before you pervert anymore people with your absurd philosophy

      • ALTER FURTHERMORE:
        THE TALMUD SAYS only the righteous goes to war for ISRAEL if you had a sin you were not permitted to go to war for Israel

        The book of JUDGES: GIDEON went to fight against the midianites and 10,000 Ews went to fight along side gedion.
        “HASHEM” SAID: “SEND THEM HOME FOR THEY HAVE SINNED ”
        OF THE 10,000 ONLY 300 REMAINED WITH HIM WHO WERE SIN FREE and they won the battle because of their righteousness by killing 120,000 medianites.
        ALTER: DID YOU READ THIS? THATS 300 RIGHTEOUS SOLDIERS AGAIN THE 120,000 ENEMIES BECAUSE HASHEM WANTS RIGHTEOUS SOLDIERS .
        NOW TELL ME MR professor of nothing, are these
        SOLDIERS OF VICTORY FIGHTING FOR THE ONE AND ONLY G-D OF THE LOWER CASTE SYSTEM?

        HASHEM SPOKE TO GIDEON..obviously gideon and those “””lower caste people””” deserved the greatess respect from HASHEM..SO TAKE YOU PROFESSORIAL PAPERS AND AND MAIL THEM TO THE DEAD WHO DIED FOR YOUR RAIGHT TO EXIST.

        NOW LOOK IN THE BOOK OF JOSHUA, GREATEST MIRACLES FOR THESE ‘SOLDIERS’ WHERE THE SUN STOPPED BY JOSHUAS PRAYERS AND THE WALLS OF JERICHO FELL FOR THOSE ”SOLDIERS WHILE HE WA S THE BIGGEST GREATEST TORAH SAGE OF THAT GENERATION..
        ANOTHER OF WHAT YOU CALL ”’THE LOWER CASTE SYSTEM”
        KING DAVID killed the philistine GOLIATH…
        WHICH GIANT DID YOU KILL LATELY?
        The leader of the SOLDIERS known as Maccabbes was the HIGH PRIEST THE KOHAINE GADOL…AND HIS SONS WERE KOHANEEM…in case you dont know. this is time of remembering by way of chanuka.

        Abraham outr father went to war against the 4 kings in Genises BERESHEET.

        ALTER, I SUGGEST YOU RETIRE ALONG WITH SHIMON PERES….FAST !!!!

        ALTER THERE ARE MANY MORE EXAMPLES YET TO TEACH YOU… but absorb this . hang your hear with sincere humility to our sages our warriors our soldies they are all righteous and mostly TO HASHEM WHO DIRECTED THIS WHOLE STAGE WE LIVE IN.

        you made me work hard for the above answers to you…which caste system do I belong to?

        AND THANKS AGAIN TO MY HABRUTA I GET ADVICE AS YOU SHOULD…..
        AT MT SINAI HASHEM TAUGHT US TO ”LEARN FROM OUR RABBIS….”

        • Alter

          Dacon 9, to “die for Hashem” there is no need for war, better dying of old age

  • Sarah R

    While I agree in principle that all ought to serve, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the concept of forcing anyone to fight against their will, which carries echoes of Tzarist conscription, as most of the Haredim are probably well aware. I don’t understand a Judaism that allows no freedom of conscience–neither that of the Haredim nor that which would compel them to become something other than what they want to be, however flawed their reasons for refusing.
    Why couldn’t army service be replaced with some kind of program for them to teach Torah to secular guys in their gap year, which would be integrative (in both directions) and compatible with their ideology and lifestyle, and make use of their existing training?

    • Jeremy Rosen

      Despite what you may have heard, that was and remains an option!

      • Sarah R

        Good to know! I hope both sides take it up willingly.

    • Sarah R

      Oh, and I’m very sorry your friend got fired just for expressing a strong opinion. That shouldn’t happen, either.

    • SARA YOU SAY:
      Why couldn’t army service be replaced with some kind of program for them to teach Torah to secular guys in their gap year.
      SARA I SAY: YOU WOULD BE FORCING A BELIEF ON THOSE THAT DONT ACCEPT IT(secular) AND THEREFORE YOU WOULD BE DOING WHAT YOU SARA OPPOSE, THAT IS DEMANDING AGAINST THEIR CONSCIENCE TO DO WHAT OTHERS WANT THEM TO DO.
      There is a discount on disney cruises this time of year…did you take the wrong ship?

      WAIT !! WAIT I hear a shofar…its MASHIACH..I HEAR THE SHOFAR… LET ME GO OUT TO SEE….
      SARAH. I thought after you posted this that Mashiach decided he better come quick,,
      but it was only a truck horn….

    • Naftali

      So, if a rocket hits a Charedi neighbourhood, why should I, who not only served in a combat unit , but volunteered for an additional 1.5 years, go and help these people?

      I would be a bit more inclined to do so if they at least participated and contributed to the country in some way, but all they do is take, and they use violence if they don’t get their way. By the way, I grew up Charedi and know that world well.

      • Sarah R

        Kol HaKavod and thank you. You’re very brave both in your service and in leaving a community not exactly known for gentleness to the nonconforming. I assume you’re not seriously suggesting that the army, or any state institution, become an instrument of a mirror-image enforcement of conformity by denying protection to certain areas based on the residents’ opinions?! Citizens in a free society are free to be disgusting!–and alive.

  • Michael

    Rabbi Rosen –

    In which IDF unit did you serve?

    • MIKEY
      which yeshiva did you teach and guide or help and teach a JEW TORAH, any Torah or gemara?

      mikey baby. how much money do you donate to help Jews that were kidnapped forced to marry or tricked to marry either a xtian or a arab?

      mikey baby I am loaded with questions of your participation in CONTRIBUTING TO ISRAEL OUR NATION, NOT ONLY THE STATE THAT DOESNT BELIEVE IN G-D
      OR TEACH HISTORY FROM ADAM TO NETANYAHU.HOW ARE YOU CONTRIBUTING TO BRINGING THOSE TO TORAH.

      Mikey serving doesnt give you brains…
      Your argument is weak.
      You have to be sarcastic and rude like me….

      mikey also please sont send me emails to contribute pizza or purim goodies to the IDF…because according to you I dont have a right to comment…but my money is good…

      ITS A PITY THE BRAVE IDF ARE USED AS PAWNS IN THESE ARGUMENTS
      MAY HASHEM BLESS THE IDF/IAF WITH STRENGTH AND SUCCESS IN ALL THEIR ENDEAVORS AND GIVE THE GOVERMENT WISDOM TO LEAD ISRAEL

    • Jeremy Rosen

      I did not serve in the IDF. But I did volunteer for community service during the Six Day War.

      • Michael

        Why am I not surprised that you’re just another cyber warrior comfortably ensconced in Manhattan, very bravely determining who should fight Israel’s next battle.

        Hey, during the 1973 War, I stood at my local subway station entrance braving 75 degree weather while collecting small amounts of change from morning rush hour travelers who wanted to contribute to the Israeli war effort. I guess that also gives me the right to add my two cents as to which Israelis get to suit up and fight the next battle.

        • Jeremy

          Do you have to be a coward to have an opinion on cowardice?

          • Michael

            I truly hope that you’re not suggesting that charedim are cowardly individuals.

            Second, your analogy is so weak that it doesn’t deserve a reply.

            Keep pontificating in Manhattan while Israeli soldiers man the front lines.

          • Michael Let me be explicit since you did not understand my comment.
            Whether one did or did not serve, where one lives is totally irrelevant to the moral issue here which should be debated on its merits not on personal issues

  • Aliza

    “So naturally, the secular ask why they should support and indulge those who refuse to share the burdens of the state. That is how Israeli politics gets so polarized.”

    So Mr Rosen – you know, in one sentence, how Israeli politics got polarized. earlier you do mention trouble in the 50’s – but you forgive the secularists for that and are sure it has all changed.

    the Charedim did not want the state. and now they have to go fight for it?

    Mr Rosen, you do not seem to know the history of the Charedim. their life in Eretz Yisroel before the state. and how they have been consistently treated by the state. the government was able to destroy the power of Gush Katif. an upcoming religious threat to the secular state. this Charedi enlistment plan is similar.

    btw – the media neglects to report the vast amounts of funds that Jews around the world send to the state – via donations to Torah scholars in Eretz Yisroel.

    the Charedim were in Eretz Yisroel before the Tzionim came and – with the anti-settlement trends – the Charedim may be the Jewish survivors if the state commits national suicide by negotiation.

    have some respect for the Charedim. if you take away your deep seated hostility and try to understand their history and lifestyle – you may find that things are not as you imagine them to be.

    • ITS YOUR FAULT JEREMY ROSEN
      REPENT SINNER
      …by the way
      I always looked foward to reading yori yanover
      _________
      ALTER OF WHAT? THE INSANE ASYLUM?
      You, like most xtians take out of context to boost your false premise.
      learn now:
      Adam Rishon the first man LOOKED OVER THE WORLD FOR THE PERFECT PERSON TO TEACH THE WORLD HOW TO MAKE REPENTANCE and that was DAVID
      NO ONE IS PERFECT,even the most devout comes in contact with sin (vayikra rabba)
      Sin is everywhere at the front door (genisis4:7)
      we all have inclinations for good and bad.The test HASHEM GIVES US if we WILL conquer the evil and do mitzvot.
      KING DAVID NEVER USED ANY EXCUSES. If he stumbled he pleaded with HASHEM FOR CONSIDERATIONS AND TO JUDGE HIM WITH COMPASSION(MAHARAL)
      DAVID FATHER WAS ONE OF THE FOUR some say five who never sinned.
      There is to much to refute you that i rather not post
      because it needs explanations and the xtians will distort much as they already have done.
      When you get leave from the hospiotal seek out a
      TORAH ORTHODOX RABBI FOR ADVICE.
      “EVERY FIBRE OF KING DAVID WAS EMMERSED IN THE SPIRIT OF REPENTANCE”(SHAARE TESHUVA )
      much of my comments based on artscroll and my habruta)(and ARTSCROLL)
      ALTER YOU ARROGANT ONe, your message is a negative
      instead of teaching the absolute beauty of KING DAVID.
      He was appointed by HASHEM to write the remedy for repentance through TEHILLIM PSALMS.The entire world refers to his psalms….mostly psalm 23.

      • Alter

        “The absolute beauty of KING DAVID”
        …DACON9, are you an Eunuch or what???

      • Alter

        Dacon 9, just to illuminate the character here: I don’t have a single drop of Xtian blood in my veins, hence my comment that “soldiers were always the lowest blood caste”. As far as I know (earlier than the 16th Century), there isn’t a single soldier for any country or king among my grandfathers. Respect.

  • Aliza

    Many times I found Yori Yanover’s articles to be distasteful.
    This article is a clear indication that the author is not familiar with the inner workings of the Charedi community.

  • Alter

    “…from the time immemorial, the Israelites were commanded to defend themselves by taking up arms”

    Soldiers were always the lowest blood caste, starting with King David’s ancestry, who was affected by gentile blood, from Ruth to Yishai, his father, “I was born in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Tehillim 51:7)

  • Steven

    It is interesting to observe that the defense minister of Israel – moshe Yalon – who is a chiloni said many times that he feels that the methods employed by yesh atid and their leader yair lapid in “forceful” conscription of chareidim are counter productive.

    Minister Yalon feels that already now a large number of chareidim do go to the army and with patience more will go – remember this is a chiloni minister speaking – most importantly he feels that criminalization of not responding to a draft notice is moraly wrong!

    Second issue is that the best way to share the burden is by letting tens of thousands of datiim into the workforce without them having gone to the army first.

    I find it interesting that the top Defence official is in disagreement with yesh atids approach but Jeremy Rosen the orthodox Rabbi from NewYork stands behind the heretic Yair Lapid.

    For the record I too believe that chareidim should serve in some capacity either in the army or sheirut leumi what i disagree with is the sina against the chareidim , the editor for the jewish press was rightly relieved of his job. As it was correctly pointed out an opinion column is just that but a reporter should report and not spew hatred.

  • Alter

    The covenant of the Torah and Rabbinic law is not a militarist covenant based on Roman cohesion.
    Being required to do military service is the mark of citizenship in Roman cohesion, not Jewish cohesion: Being obligated, as in conscription, rather than “required” (and being unable to leave unauthorized without punishment, or being unable to quit without serious repercussions) is slavery, regardless of payment (Roman, i.e. Edomite slaves, received a wage and were granted leasehold property that didn’t belong to them.)
    Jewish cohesion is based on Emunah and its covenant is the family. Hence, Yevamot 76a-77b is so important i.e. without Jewish blood between husband and wife, there is no faithfulness, nor cohesion in the family, nor in the community nor in the society e.g. a son wants to kill the father, a brother etc. In contrast, the motto “if you want peace, prepare for war” (Si vis pacem, para belum), on which Roman cohesion is built, corresponds to the compulsory military conscription, whose citizens are soldiers, or slaves (punished for unauthorized leave etc.) regardless of their reward or duration. Soldiers were always the lowest blood caste. A quote in Berachot 17a says, “in the future there is no growth, nor business, nor jealousy, nor violence, nor competition” i.e. a “governance of priest and a transparent state” (mamlechet kohanim v’ goy kadosh) whose citizens are priestly and everyone is transparent.”

  • Dov

    Your friend was fired because he forgot that instead of reporting the news, he decided to make the news and to make it as he thinks. I do not have anything against serving in the Army, but when I read his piece, I too cringed and wondered allowed, what came of the other newspaper. Mr Yanover is a sharp pen and has used it at times against people he doesn’t agree with. I am happy to see him sacked. Maybe being in the outside would teach him not to hurt peoples feelings. He has been doing this for his entire writing career.

    • DOV YOU SAY IN REFERENCE TO YORI YANOVER: Maybe being in the outside would teach him not to hurt peoples feelings.
      I SAY: lololololololol hahahahalol
      baby got a booboo..let mommy kiss it….LOLOLOLOL

    • Sarah

      @Dov–Yori Yanover’s piece was spot-on and expressed exactly what most of Israel (those of us outside the Ultra-O welfare ghetto) thinks. Too bad your leadership exerted pressure to silence a voice that speaks for all of us, against all you “chillul Ha-Shem” disgraces extorting money for Torah study. At least he was WORKING for a living instead of being a parasite.

  • AM I UP AT BAT NOW R’ JEREMY ROSEN?
    OK,MY TURN

    YORI YANOVER LOST HIS POSITION?
    What was lost other than income?
    HE KEPT HIS SELF RESPECT AND HIS DIGNITY

    There was once a story going around where a student asked his rabbi if he can take the ‘jewish’ press into the bathroom..
    The Rabbi replied
    ” the question should be if we can take it OUT of the bathroom.

    Torah tells us to separate from the other nations so we don’t learn their ways.
    Yori is separated so he does not learn the ways of
    The following wackos.who are featured in the ”jewish” press.

    schmuely boteach who still gets to be seen IN THIS SITE IS , ‘americas heretic’.
    avi weiss, started a new religion
    shlomo riskin loves jesux, very incriminating youtube videos

    HEY JOHNNY TRAINING
    READ THIS NOW…..
    GIMPEL. Pronounce it right…its gim-pell
    YO GIMPEL….REMEMBER ME?
    I was the one that called you on arutz sheva when you co hosted with R’ Tovia singer.
    Remember we were screaming at each other?
    Then you wrote to my blog claiming you apologizing to me..but all you did was attempt to justify your insulting remarks and accusation of some of our greatest rabbis in this generation?
    REMEMBER ME GIM-PELL?
    You stated flatly
    THAT EVERY RABBI IN AMERICA is sinning because they don’t com-pell
    America JEWS to make aliyah….because they don’t impose force dictate teach that we must make aliyah.
    REMEJMBER ME GIM-PELL as you like to say your name.
    I called you and I said””clarify your statement””
    Remember I said you are insulting our Rabbis?
    Remember? Then I asked you to SHOW me where it says that WE ALL HAVE TO MAKE ALIYAH NOW AT ONCE?

    Gim-pell…I am from Brooklyn we don’t take kindly to your insults to AMERICA OR OUR RABBIS.
    REMEMBER ME GIM-PELL
    AND YOU REITERATED YOUR STATEMENT
    AND WE WERE SCREAMING AT TOP VOLUME ON AIR?

    MAYBE YOU LOST THE ELECTION IN ISRAEL
    BECAUSE OF YOUR INSULTS TO THE MEMORY
    OF OUR GREAT RABBIS IN AMERICA…..
    ….REMEMBER?
    Remember when I listed at least 20 of this generation.
    RABBI MOSHE FIENSTIEN
    RABBI PAM
    AND SO ON AND SO ON
    AND AGAIN YOU SAID LOUD AND CLEAR
    “”YES THEY ARE SINNING”””

    JOHN TRAIN…
    Go to church
    You don’t know what you’re talking about until you look behind EVERY comment
    who what how why is the character of the man behind the words….
    No I don’t accept that he said good words..
    Who are you or I to decipher goodness from crazy from evil from insane.
    When a person is in public eye…..selling his agenda AND his philosophy…
    We must be very cautious and not promote that which may or may not occasionally go off on a evil tangent
    The general public cannot and will not do that to each and every article, they will read it and be influenced…
    When a writer insults who are universally respected and that person interpretes as a prophetthen he must be rejected ..meaning gim-pelllll.

    YES,gim-pppelll must be entirely rejected as also
    boteach / weiss / riskin and in this site benny starr who is fixated on art that does not depict the dead mangod with proper complexion or halos on his head.

  • Emmett

    Your friend was fired for an unauthorized & slanted story that was promoting the leftist’s agenda. He deserved to be fired, and so don’t you for using the media for own personal purposes.

    • EMMETT when did you stop being a clown?
      WOW I HEARD YOU WERE THE WORLDS BEST CLOWN, MAKING MILLIONS FOR YOUR WORK.Emett Kelly

      IS THE JOB STILL OPEN FOR YOU? grab it!

      jewish press is 99% opinion of many matters such as religion and politics life and marrige and NOT a news breaking publication. It is published weekly and cannot be considered anything but an opinionated paper.

      FOR YOUR EDIFICATION.
      OPINION MEANS: a belief, judgment, or way of thinking about something : what someone thinks about a particular thing or an expert in certain matters(merriam webster)

      Divorce court is filled with the above, both lawyers and wifes.
      My ex was shouting to the judge pointing towards me saying “look at him,just look at him, does he look normal?”
      emett, she didnt like the tie I was wearing in court.

  • Shaya

    It’s unfortunate that Jews can witness the greatest ever protest in modern Jewish history and fail to even try to understand what’s behind it. Virtually all Gedolei Torah among Litvish, Chassidish and Sefardi camps attended, yet Jews who supposed respect Torah fail to find a single point of concurrence with universally acknowledged rabbonim like Rav Steineman, who has previously sought to compromise on military issues. Obviously, there is much more to this issue than simply that of the responsibility of every Israeli to serve in the army.

    The army itself is the first to admit that they don’t need the chareidim in order to have an effective military force – their presence would only make things more difficult. The primary political drive to get chareidim to enlist comes from two places: the secular who feel that Torah learning has no bearing on the security and continued existence of Israel at all; and those who fear that demographically Chareidim will take over Israel in the next generation, and something most be done to assimilate them into modern Israeli society. The army is designed for this, and this is the openly expressed agenda of those who push this initiative: they want to destroy the Chareidim as a cultural and political force in Israeli society. They view the self sacrifice of Jews learning Torah day and night with minimal material luxuries as meaningless, unnecessary, and ultimately threatening to their lifestyle. If they respected Torah, they would be grateful for the unequaled spirit of Torah in Israel, and the obvious fact that all the miracles we’ve witnessed in past wars is due specifically to this merit.

    It is extremely naive for Jews living outside Israel to pretend they understand the nuances of Israeli politics: what Lapid stands for, and what Bennett did by teaming up with him against the Chareidim. And if you want to write off 700,000 chareidim of all camps without the slightest effort to understand their position, then don’t go crying about the lack of unity in Klal Yisroel!

    • zeynep

      “It is extremely naive for Jews living outside Israel to pretend they understand the nuances of Israeli politics..”

      Your point is well taken. Thanks for the balance.

    • Aliza

      Dear Shaya,

      I want to vote for you! lol

      You defined and expressed the situation with clarity and dignity. Thank you!

      I see from the many comments that support this article, that it is important for circulation that the Algemeiner post/publish works of this sort.

    • Naftali

      Nonsense. I grew up Charedi, and I moved to Israel and volunteered for the IDF. I left the Charedi world and it HAD NOTHING to do with Tzahal. I left because of the sheer hypocrisy I saw and still see in that world. I left because really bad issues are swept under the rug and as we say in Israel, Hamavin Yavin.

      In fact, the only issue that upsets me about Israel is the Haredi impositions, the violence they turn to when they don’t get their way, their total lack of contribution to society, and their dependance on us to support them.

  • JOHN TRAIN

    HERE IS AN ARTICLE THAT I BELIEVE HAS BOTH CONTENT AND TONE:
    Torah Study And The Defense Of Israel
    By: Rabbi Jeremy Gimpel
    Published: March 20th, 2014
    Latest update: March 21st, 2014

    I am a platoon sergeant in the IDF. I am a religious Jew. I am a platoon sergeant in the IDF because I am a religious Jew.

    Recently, hundreds of thousands of haredim gathered in Jerusalem to protest the idea that they should be drafted into the army like every other Jewish citizen of Israel. This, they claim, is the Torah law and the will of God.

    It is nearly impossible to find a precedent in all of Tanach, Talmud or Jewish history where Jews did not go out to defend their country together. There is not one time when Jews were exempt from fighting alongside their brothers because they were learning Torah.

    Joshua, the spiritual leader and commander of the first Jewish army in the land of Israel, was commanded by God that “the Torah shall not depart from your mouth day and night.” In the haredi paradigm, we should expect to read about the houses of study Joshua established. Instead, for the next seven years Joshua went out to battle with all his people.

    Ironically, that passage in the first chapter in the book of Joshua is the primary textual source for the commandment to learn Torah.

    King David, the author of so many of our treasured prayers, also went out to battle. With a Torah scroll by his side he led his men in war and toward peace. The Maccabees were priests in the Holy Temple. Matityahu was the high priest and his son Judah a priest as well. Both led the military revolt against the Greek empire. Later, Rabbi Akiva led his students to war under Bar Kochba against the Roman occupation in Israel.

    For those who can’t find value in the Jewish state and therefore refuse to defend it (or to even thank God for its existence on Yom Ha’atzmaut), a religious re-education is in order. There has never been more Torah study in the land of Israel in all our history than there is today. More synagogues, mikvehs, yeshivas and seminaries have been built by the modern state of Israel than ever before. In quantifiable numbers, the amount of people learning Torah in our modern state dwarfs anything that King David, King Solomon, Ezra, Nehemiah, the Hasmoneans and Rabbi Akiva ever produced.

    Outside of Israel, the greatest yeshivas like Volozhin and Lublin had no more than 300 students. Even the legendary institutions of Sura and Pumpedita had approximately 1,000 students. Just the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of Torah students in Israel to protest is reason enough to celebrate the country.

    Only the modern state of Israel with a trained military could have transformed our shattered and devastated people after the Holocaust into a new spiritual empire. While it is forbidden to rely on miracles, we live as a free people again today because of our brave, dedicated soldiers. Only a few decades ago Jews wore a different kind of uniform – one with stripes and a yellow star.

    In this sense, the popular demand “to share the burden” creates the wrong discourse and misses the heart of what it means to be a Jew in our country. Serving in the first unified Jewish army in the Land of Israel since the times of King David is not a burden; it is a privilege, an honor, and a miracle. It is unconscionable for a religious Jew living in the Promised Land, connected to his heritage and his history, not to want to serve in the army.

    Although the ultimate Jewish vision aspires to no army, no soldiers and no weapons of war, the story of the modern Jewish army is the next chapter in the ongoing saga of Jewish history.

    Israel Eldad articulates this point in his book The Jewish Revolution. “Some time in 1953,” he writes, “a remarkable series of ancient letters was discovered in the Judean desert. These were the letter of the last commander of Judea, Simon Bar Kochba, the leader of the last great revolt against the Romans…. The letters, addressed to commanders in various theaters of operation, were personally signed by him. Now they are on display at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem.

    “This by itself is an outstanding archeological discovery. But it is not the most miraculous part of the story. The true miracle lies in the fact that the person who discovered the letters of the last Jewish commander was the well-known archeologist, General Yigael Yadin, effectively the first commander of the new Jewish army.

    “For 1,820 years Bar Kochba’s letters lay hidden in the Judean desert, in clay pots where they were preserved for some unknown date in the future…. They were waiting until they reached their final destination. The letters of Bar Kochba, the last commander of the Jewish army, thus reached the first commander of the new Jewish army after 1,820 years as if by personal delivery….”

    What Eldad does not discuss is what Bar Kochba wrote and how relevant his message is today. He ordered his men to deliver lulavs and etrogs to his soldiers in the battlefield. It was the holiday of Sukkot and his Torah-observant troops wanted to serve God while they served in His army.

    A call to us from the days of Rabbi Akiva to never forget that serving in the Jewish army is not a secular burden but a religious duty.

    • Jeremy Rosen

      John
      I agree that is a well argued and well written piece.

    • zeynep

      I read this article in jewish press. Absolutely brilliant.

  • The problem is WE (Clal israel) have become our own worst enemy.
    “the enemy is in the building”

    The ultra dislike the modern orthodox, and then they think reform Jews are not Jews and it keeps going down the chain…

    It is time for ALL Jews to unite –
    Israel is fighting to get the Palestinian to recognize israel as a JEWISH state and yet looking inward all Jews do not recognize what we need from our enemies. I find that very troubling.

    A proud frustrated Jew

  • Every Israeli of military age has an obligation to serve in the IDF, regardless if they are ultra-orthodox or secular, or anything in between. If Israel is to survive, all citizens must take responsibility for this to happen. The Jews and Israel have a world of enemies always ready to destroy them and the country. If Israel is lost, will the Charedim accept their responsibility or will they blame it on G-d?

    Bravo to Jeremy Rosen. He wrote an excellent piece that all Charedim would be wise to heed.

  • Jeremy Rosen

    John

    Thank you for your comments and I do agree there is room to criticize the tome of parts of Yori’s piece. But the arguments were, in my opinion, legitimate.

    For all the faults of the bill and there are many the Charedi world simply refused to negotiate. That explains why for example there is a Hesder arrangement for Dati Leumi but none for Charedi men.

    But please tell me where you think my tone was at fault?

  • Hershel Barg

    One additional point I might add to Mr. Rosen’s excellent essay: To the claim that service in the IDF may cause Haredi young men to fall away from their religious observance I would answer that there are already a significant number of young Haredim who have fallen away from religion.

    This has nothing to do with serving in the military. In fact, for such young people a tour in the military might provide them with a sense of discipline and purpose which in the end could bolster their religiosity.

  • JOHN TRAIN

    ADD TO PREVIOUS POST:

    @ Jeremy Rosen 1. Sorry for calling you “Jeffery”.
    2. Your points are excellent
    3, Your tone is horrible.
    4. How would you proceed to integrate the Charedi economically and socially without tearing Israel apart?

  • JOHN TRAIN

    @ Jeffery Rosen. Yori Yanover’s crime was sneaking in his own editorial opinion- a biting condemnation of a demonstration of protestors in New York against a proposed law –in the guise of reporting an actual event on the ground.

    Yanover’s transgression is an unforgivable sin that he committed against all readers such as me who rely on the media for accurate reporting.

    Your column is opinion. However, I find it revealing that you cannot distinguish between reporting and editorial opinion writing.

    By the way, I believe everyone should serve and that the Charedi are profoundly wrong in both their position and in their tactics.

    However, that does not excuse Yanover for abusing his position of trust with his employer and with the public to exercise his hateful animosity to the Charedi.

Algemeiner.com